MyFloridaCode.com

Now I'm really confused. 

Two messages that seem to say different things altogether. 

In the first below, the commentary says "removing and replacing are not repairs."


The second message below says the commentary says that " repair provisions of the code entail much more than "patching or minor replacement" (See Chapter 5, Section 506.2.)."  BTW, section 506.2 doesn't exist in the 2004 code.

So removing the burned up roof structure and replacing it is or isn't a repair?

Mark Cramer


-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Stanley [mailto:tstanley at i-1.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 8:04 PM
To: Dennis Stanley; Mark Cramer; codetalk at myfloridacode.com
Subject: Re: [Florida Code Talk] work area for fire damaged SFR

Remember that the 2007 code sections are a little different but the language 
is pretty much the same for repairs.  Here is a little more from the 
commentary concerning repairs for clarification:
SECTION 501

GENERAL

501.1 Scope. Repairs as described in Section 302 shall comply

with the requirements of this chapter. Repairs to historic build -

ings shall comply with this chapter, except as modified in

Chap ter 11.

Repairs are described in the Scope at Section 402 as

the patching or restoration or replacement of dam -

aged materials, elements, equipment, or fixtures for

the purpose of maintaining such components in good

or sound condition. The operative word here is “dam -

aged”. Updating, modifying, "sprucing-up", moderniz -

ing, freshening, renovating, or removing and replac -

ing are not repairs. Repairs entail the correction of

damaged elements or systems within the building.

The scoping section specifies repairs are governed by

Chapter 5 and provides the charging language for en -

forcement of the provisions. The scope further stipu -

lates that the chapter applies to historic buildings ex -

cept as modified by Chapter 11

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dennis Stanley" <tstanley at i-1.net>
To: "Mark Cramer" <mcramer1 at tampabay.rr.com>; <codetalk at myfloridacode.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Florida Code Talk] work area for fire damaged SFR


This is taken from the 2007 FEBC Commentary.  It is available for purchase 
from BOAF.  It is for the 2007 code and is not yet applicable, however the 
definitions seem to be the same.  There are several changes so I would 
recommennd the commentary as a tool.  Though the commentary is not "code", 
it is a valuable tool and helps to better understand this confusing code.
REPAIR. The patching, restoration and/or minor replacement

of materials, elements, components, equipment and/or fixtures

for the purposes of maintaining such materials, elements, com -

ponents, equipment and/or fixtures in good or sound condition.

The definition for repair is a Florida-specific Amend -

ment. The terms "patching" "and/or minor re place -

ment." contained within the Florida version of the defi -

nition may result in a misunderstanding. The inclusion

of the terms "patching" and "minor replacement" infer

that only minor activities are considered repairs. How -

ever, the repair provisions of the code entail much

more than "patching or minor replacement" (See

Chapter 5, Section 506.2.).

The repair of buildings that have sustained struc -

tural damage due to a hurricane or other event is sub -

ject to the provisions of Chapter 5.  Where damage

does not exceed either of the thresholds established

in the definition for substantial structural damage, re -

pairs may be made using materials and strengths that

existed prior to the damage. For example where a

building located in a wind-borne de bris region was

erected prior to code requirements for glazed opening

protection, broken glazing may be replaced with like

materials and strengths that existed prior to the dam -

age (See Commen tary in Section 506.2.4.). Even

where the required repairs af ect more than 50

percent of the aggregate building area, it is a repair,

not a Level 3 Alteration. Such repair work is subject to

Chapter 5 of the code and is not subject to Chapters 6,

7, and 8.

Where the damage is sub stantial structural damage,

an evaluation must be performed by an architect or

engineer to determine the extent that the repairs have

to comply with current code. In any event, the repairs

are required to comply with Chapter 5 and are not

subject to Chapters 6, 7 and 8 for alterations. The

same application applies to fire protection and means

of egress systems. For the most part, the intent of the

code is to allow repairs to return the building to the

pre-damaged condition and not require the entire

building to be made to comply with the current edition

of the code.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Cramer" <mcramer1 at tampabay.rr.com>
To: <codetalk at myfloridacode.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Florida Code Talk] work area for fire damaged SFR


To get to chapter 4, which is repairs, you would first have to get through 
chapter 3, which is classification of work, to determine whether it's a 
repair or alteration,  no?

MC

-----Original Message-----
From: Danny Weeden [mailto:Danny_Weeden at co.escambia.fl.us]
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:59 PM
To: Mark Cramer
Subject: RE: [Florida Code Talk] work area for fire damaged SFR

  What about using the "Damaged Buildings" in Chapter 4 ? Thats what I look 
at to make the determination.

-----Original Message-----
From: codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com
[mailto:codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com]On Behalf Of Mark Cramer
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 6:39 AM
To: codetalk at myfloridacode.com
Subject: Re: [Florida Code Talk] work area for fire damaged SFR


I see what you’re saying, but you also have to look at the definition of 
alteration:



ALTERATION. Any construction or renovation to an existing structure other 
than repair or addition. Alterations are classified as Level 1, Level 2, and 
Level 3.



It would seem that if it’s not a repair or addition, it’s an alteration, 
whether one is reconfiguring anything or not.



The trigger for level 3 is 50% of the work area.



“Level 3 alterations apply where the work area exceeds 50 percent of the 
aggregate area of the building and made within any 12-month period.”





Mark Cramer





From: marchitect at att.net [mailto:marchitect at att.net]
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 9:27 PM
To: Mark Cramer; codetalk at myfloridacode.com
Subject: Re: [Florida Code Talk] work area for fire damaged SFR



An important aspect of Level 2 and 3 is the definition of work area, which 
is defined as the area being reconfigured.  Is any of the house being 
reconfigured?  If the roof structure is replaced exactly as it was before 
the fire, would it not be a Level 1 Alteration?  Can't very well be a 
repair.  Same with the missing partitions.  If nothing is reconfigured, then 
egress has not been altered, in which case it can only be Level 1.  What do 
some of the real building officials say?



Lee Martin

GOBBELL HAYS PARTNERS, INC.

(407) 276-2852

-------------- Original message from "Mark Cramer" 
<mcramer1 at tampabay.rr.com>: -------------- 


> I'm curious how you could term this a repair, given the definition of 
> repair
> in the existing building code:
>
>
> REPAIR. The patching, restoration and/or minor replacement of materials,
> elements, components, equipment and/or fixtures for the purposes of
> maintaining such materials, elements, components, equipment and/or 
> fixtures
> in good or sound condition.
>
>
> It's clearly not patching. It's not restoration, it's replacement. It's 
> most
> certainly not minor. It's not for the purposes or maintaining things in 
> good
> or sound condition.
>
> For the sake of discussion, if you were to categorize this as a repair,
> what's an alteration?
>
>
> Mark Cramer
> Mark Cramer Inspection Services, Inc.
> 492 20th Ave.
> Indian Rocks Beach, FL 33785
> 727-595-4211
> http://www.BestTampaInspector.com
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Dennis Stanley [mailto:tstanley at i-1.net]
> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:09 AM
> To: Bill LeMaster; Christopher Banbury; Mark Cramer;
> codetalk at myfloridacode.com
> Subject: Re: [Florida Code Talk] work area for fire damaged SFR
>
> I agree with Bill. It could be a repair if it is put back the way it was.
> If it is being re-configured, then not a repair. It appears to be a repair
> with substantial structural damage to me.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Bill LeMaster"
> To: "Christopher Banbury" ; "Mark Cramer"
> ;
> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 8:53 AM
> Subject: Re: [Florida Code Talk] work area for fire damaged SFR
>
>
> I think this is a repair not an alteration.
>
> William T. LeMaster CBO/CEAP/MCP
> Okaloosa County
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com
> [mailto:codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com] On Behalf Of Christopher
> Banbury
> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 8:45 AM
> To: Mark Cramer; codetalk at myfloridacode.com
> Subject: Re: [Florida Code Talk] work area for fire damaged SFR
>
> I vote level 3. It sounds like 100% of the building area requires a roof
> which would set the work area at 100%. Also one might argue that egress,
> accessibility, & life safety would need to be addressed for 100% of the
> building since new interior partitions are being constructed.
>
>
> Christopher Banbury, PE
> President
>
> Ark Engineering, Inc.
> PO Box 10129, Brooksville, FL 34603
> 22 North Broad ST, Brooksville, FL 34601
> Phone: (352) 754-2424
> Fax: (352) 754-2412
> www.arkengineering.net
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message----- 
> > From: codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com [mailto:codetalk-
> > bounces at myfloridacode.com] On Behalf Of Mark Cramer
> > Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 4:16 PM
> > To: 'CodeTalk'
> > Subject: Re: [Florida Code Talk] FW: Florida Building
> Commission(October
> > Meeting Summary)
> >
> > An existing 1 story SFR is extensively damaged in a fire, leaving only
> the
> > exterior block walls and one partition wall standing. Roof structure
> is
> > totally gone.
> >
> > Is this a level 2 or level 3 alteration as defined in the Existing
> > building
> > code? Level 3 is defined there as follows:
> >
> > ALTERATION-LEVEL 3
> > 305.1 Scope.
> > Level 3 alterations apply where the work area exceeds 50 percent of
> the
> > aggregate area of the building and made within any 12-month period.
> > Exception: Work areas in which the alteration work is exclusively
> > plumbing,
> > mechanical or electrical shall not be included in the computation of
> total
> > area of all work areas.
> >
> >
> > Mark Cramer
> > Mark Cramer Inspection Services, Inc.
> > 492 20th Ave.
> > Indian Rocks Beach, FL 33785
> > 727-595-4211
> > http://www.BestTampaInspector.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > CodeTalk mailing list
> > CodeTalk at myfloridacode.com
> > Unsubscribe or change your options at:
> > http://myfloridacode.com/mailman/listinfo/codetalk
> >
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> CodeTalk mailing list
> CodeTalk at myfloridacode.com
> Unsubscribe or change your options at:
> http://myfloridacode.com/mailman/listinfo/codetalk
>
> _______________________________________________
> CodeTalk mailing list
> CodeTalk at myfloridacode.com
> Unsubscribe or change your options at:
> http://myfloridacode.com/mailman/listinfo/codetalk
>
> _______________________________________________
> CodeTalk mailing list
> CodeTalk at myfloridacode.com
> Unsubscribe or change your options at:
> http://myfloridacode.com/mailman/listinfo/codetalk

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
http://myfloridacode.com/pipermail/codetalk/attachments/20081104/c4a894b9/attachment.html
_______________________________________________
CodeTalk mailing list
CodeTalk at myfloridacode.com
Unsubscribe or change your options at:
http://myfloridacode.com/mailman/listinfo/codetalk


_______________________________________________
CodeTalk mailing list
CodeTalk at myfloridacode.com
Unsubscribe or change your options at:
http://myfloridacode.com/mailman/listinfo/codetalk
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
http://myfloridacode.com/pipermail/codetalk/attachments/20081104/91df33b4/attachment.html
_______________________________________________
CodeTalk mailing list
CodeTalk at myfloridacode.com
Unsubscribe or change your options at:
http://myfloridacode.com/mailman/listinfo/codetalk