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I think you answered your own question. What does the engineering Say? What
will your local building inspector want? This phone call will save you much
time and money. 

 

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Subject: CodeTalk Digest, Vol 41, Issue 13

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Today's Topics:

   1. Attaching Deck to Stucco (Ken Rodgers)
   2. Re: Attaching Deck to Stucco (Chandler Knowles)
   3. Re: Attaching Deck to Stucco (Eric Kuritzky)
   4. Re: Attaching Deck to Stucco (WPMyrick at aol.com)
   5. Re: Attaching Deck to Stucco (Ken Rodgers)
   6. Re: Attaching Deck to Stucco (Randy Shackelford)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 21:02:21 -0600
From: "Ken Rodgers" <Ken at artisanbilt.com>
Subject: [Florida Code Talk] Attaching Deck to Stucco
To: <codetalk at myfloridacode.com>
Message-ID: <006801c97aab$8410ce60$8c326b20$@com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

All,

  I know this is not really a code question (unless someone has a code
reference that applies) but I would still appreciate your expert opinions on
the subject.  I was asked to give a bid on building a second story deck to a
house with stucco covering.  Based on research and my own inclinations, I
feel it would be best to remove the stucco where the ledger board will be so
it (the ledger board) can attach directly to the structural members of the
house (e.g. - floor trusses).  It seems to me that leaving the stucco in
between the two would not be as structurally sound since it could compress
over time and with movement of the wood and make for a loose joint.  It
could also cause stresses and cracks in the stucco.  Obviously, proper
flashing will be a key factor in either case.  Any opinions, experiences,
etc are appreciated.

 

Ken 

 

Ken Rodgers

ArtisanBilt Construction

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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 22:13:33 -0600
From: "Chandler Knowles" <chandlerknowles at att.net>
Subject: Re: [Florida Code Talk] Attaching Deck to Stucco
To: <codetalk at myfloridacode.com>, "Ken Rodgers" <Ken at artisanbilt.com>
Message-ID: <1e8901c97ab5$7617cbb0$6501a8c0 at ChansboxYo>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original

What kind of stucco?  Cementicious?  EIFS?  How thick?

You are indeed correct that the proper flashing will be the key which ever 
way you go.

Chandler Knowles
Pensacola, FL

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ken Rodgers" <Ken at artisanbilt.com>
To: <codetalk at myfloridacode.com>
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 9:02 PM
Subject: [Florida Code Talk] Attaching Deck to Stucco


> All,
>
>  I know this is not really a code question (unless someone has a code
> reference that applies) but I would still appreciate your expert opinions 
> on
> the subject.  I was asked to give a bid on building a second story deck to

> a
> house with stucco covering.  Based on research and my own inclinations, I
> feel it would be best to remove the stucco where the ledger board will be 
> so
> it (the ledger board) can attach directly to the structural members of the
> house (e.g. - floor trusses).  It seems to me that leaving the stucco in
> between the two would not be as structurally sound since it could compress
> over time and with movement of the wood and make for a loose joint.  It
> could also cause stresses and cracks in the stucco.  Obviously, proper
> flashing will be a key factor in either case.  Any opinions, experiences,
> etc are appreciated.
>
>
>
> Ken
>
>
>
> Ken Rodgers
>
> ArtisanBilt Construction
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: 
>
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> CodeTalk at myfloridacode.com
> Unsubscribe or change your options at:
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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 23:40:54 -0500
From: Eric Kuritzky <kuritzky at bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: [Florida Code Talk] Attaching Deck to Stucco
To: <codetalk at myfloridacode.com>, Ken Rodgers <Ken at artisanbilt.com>
Message-ID: <C59AC006.1199F%kuritzky at bellsouth.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="US-ASCII"

There is no simple answer.

Money is the ultimate answer.  Because, to do it right will require money,
and skill.

Stucco on what? 
Frame? 
Block? 
What kind of sheathing (if frame) is under all this?

Remember, if the system is solid, and doesn't leak now, anything you do to
it will increase the possibility of a failure.

And caulking is not the answer to anything.

Leaving the stucco in place may very well be the best approach.

There are a sufficient quantity of anchors available to secure the ledger
through the stucco.  No matter how you look at it, you're putting holes in
the system; either through the stucco, or through the ledger.  And the holes
go all the way into the structure.

If you peel off the stucco, you create at least two flashing conditions, AND
have broken the existing water-proof barrier.  You'll need to flash the top
of the ledger, and the bottom.  The ledger, wood, then becomes the barrier
to whatever is left behind the stucco.

And frankly, it could very well be a code problem.  It's both structural and
water intrusion related.

Anyway, good luck with it.  Each problem is unique, and even with more
information, this group will probably come up with several good ways to
attend to this.

Eric D. Kuritzky, Architect, CBO
Orlando


On 1/19/09 11:13 PM, "Chandler Knowles" <chandlerknowles at att.net> wrote:

> What kind of stucco?  Cementicious?  EIFS?  How thick?
> 
> You are indeed correct that the proper flashing will be the key which ever
> way you go.
> 
> Chandler Knowles
> Pensacola, FL
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ken Rodgers" <Ken at artisanbilt.com>
> To: <codetalk at myfloridacode.com>
> Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 9:02 PM
> Subject: [Florida Code Talk] Attaching Deck to Stucco
> 
> 
>> All,
>> 
>>  I know this is not really a code question (unless someone has a code
>> reference that applies) but I would still appreciate your expert opinions
>> on
>> the subject.  I was asked to give a bid on building a second story deck
to
>> a
>> house with stucco covering.  Based on research and my own inclinations, I
>> feel it would be best to remove the stucco where the ledger board will be
>> so
>> it (the ledger board) can attach directly to the structural members of
the
>> house (e.g. - floor trusses).  It seems to me that leaving the stucco in
>> between the two would not be as structurally sound since it could
compress
>> over time and with movement of the wood and make for a loose joint.  It
>> could also cause stresses and cracks in the stucco.  Obviously, proper
>> flashing will be a key factor in either case.  Any opinions, experiences,
>> etc are appreciated.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Ken
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Ken Rodgers
>> 
>> ArtisanBilt Construction
>> 
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: 
>>
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>> achment.html
>> _______________________________________________
>> CodeTalk mailing list
>> CodeTalk at myfloridacode.com
>> Unsubscribe or change your options at:
>> http://myfloridacode.com/mailman/listinfo/codetalk
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> CodeTalk at myfloridacode.com
> Unsubscribe or change your options at:
> http://myfloridacode.com/mailman/listinfo/codetalk


Eric D. Kuritzky, Architect, CBO




------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:41:14 EST
From: WPMyrick at aol.com
Subject: Re: [Florida Code Talk] Attaching Deck to Stucco
To: Ken at artisanbilt.com, codetalk at myfloridacode.com
Message-ID: <ca7.3cd66c28.36a73c8a at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 
Ken,
 
You are getting some pretty good advise, and I think Eric, of course, being

our unofficial Architect of Record, gave us a good reality check on this
type 
of  alterations and repairs project.
 
My opinion excludes synthetic stucco over EIF's or fiberboard. That is a  
completely different scenario. Give us some more information about the
building 
in question. 
 
One way to minimize the potential for cracking the stucco as well as  
precluding  the necessity of penetration of the stucco, and more
importantly, the 
moisture and/or vapor barrier, is to make the deck totally  self-supporting
by 
adding vertical ( 6" X 6" Posts, or c.m.u., which could both  be stuccoed to

match the existing ) at all 4 corners (and assuming your  deck can be
supported 
at it's corners).
 
If you have a c.m.u. wall, that would be easy to do, but keep some caulk  
handy for resolving the aesthetic value of the probable hair line cracks  
appearing where the stucco column meets, but is not "tied" to the  building.
 
If structurally advised, Eric can probably tell us where and how to place  
just a couple or a few specified bolts through the posts, penetrating the  
building if absolutely necessary??
Let us know if you have a c.m.u. wall, frame with wire lath, or synthetic  
stucco over ???.
 
Good luck Ken,
 
Paul
 
Building & Zoning Code Violation Resolutions
W. Paul Myrick, Pres.,CEO, CBC, BBA 
Florida Certified  Design-Build Contractor  CBC023304

               
William Paul Myrick Properties Incorporated
192 Ivy Lakes Drive, St.  Johns, Florida 32259
Phone & Fax Number: (904) 829-6829
Nextel: 838-2398 Direct Connect:160+34+1064 R

Respond via email: _wpmyrick at aol.com_ (mailto:wpmyrick at aol.com) 


 
In a message dated 1/19/2009 11:41:27 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
kuritzky at bellsouth.net writes:

There is  no simple answer.

Money is the ultimate answer.  Because, to do it  right will require money,
and skill.

Stucco on what? 
Frame?  
Block? 
What kind of sheathing (if frame) is under all  this?

Remember, if the system is solid, and doesn't leak now, anything  you do to
it will increase the possibility of a failure.

And  caulking is not the answer to anything.

Leaving the stucco in place may  very well be the best approach.

There are a sufficient quantity of  anchors available to secure the ledger
through the stucco.  No matter  how you look at it, you're putting holes in
the system; either through the  stucco, or through the ledger.  And the
holes
go all the way into the  structure.

If you peel off the stucco, you create at least two flashing  conditions,
AND
have broken the existing water-proof barrier.  You'll  need to flash the top
of the ledger, and the bottom.  The ledger,  wood, then becomes the barrier
to whatever is left behind the  stucco.

And frankly, it could very well be a code problem.  It's  both structural
and
water intrusion related.

Anyway, good luck with  it.  Each problem is unique, and even with more
information, this  group will probably come up with several good ways to
attend to  this.

Eric D. Kuritzky, Architect, CBO
Orlando


On 1/19/09  11:13 PM, "Chandler Knowles" <chandlerknowles at att.net>  wrote:

> What kind of stucco?  Cementicious?  EIFS?   How thick?
> 
> You are indeed correct that the proper flashing  will be the key which
ever
> way you go.
> 
> Chandler  Knowles
> Pensacola, FL
> 
> ----- Original Message  -----
> From: "Ken Rodgers" <Ken at artisanbilt.com>
> To:  <codetalk at myfloridacode.com>
> Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 9:02  PM
> Subject: [Florida Code Talk] Attaching Deck to Stucco
>  
> 
>> All,
>> 
>>  I know this is not  really a code question (unless someone has a code
>> reference that  applies) but I would still appreciate your expert
opinions
>>  on
>> the subject.  I was asked to give a bid on building a  second story deck
to
>> a
>> house with stucco  covering.  Based on research and my own inclinations,
I
>> feel  it would be best to remove the stucco where the ledger board will
be
>> so
>> it (the ledger board) can attach directly to the  structural members of
the
>> house (e.g. - floor trusses).  It  seems to me that leaving the stucco in
>> between the two would not  be as structurally sound since it could
compress
>> over time and  with movement of the wood and make for a loose joint.  It
>>  could also cause stresses and cracks in the stucco.  Obviously,  proper
>> flashing will be a key factor in either case.  Any  opinions,
experiences,
>> etc are appreciated.
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> Ken
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Ken Rodgers
>> 
>> ArtisanBilt  Construction

 
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy 
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------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:18:46 -0600
From: "Ken Rodgers" <Ken at artisanbilt.com>
Subject: Re: [Florida Code Talk] Attaching Deck to Stucco
To: <codetalk at myfloridacode.com>
Message-ID: <007301c97b12$647644b0$2d62ce10$@com>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

The structure is a new D.R. Horton home wood frame with (I'm assuming) EFIS
stucco.  Plans call for two lag bolts at each floor truss.  I agree that
finding these trusses with the stucco left in place won't be simple but
shouldn't be impossible either.  It will however require finding them with
the "manual stud finder" (a small drill bit) which of course just opens up
more holes to moisture.  Overall, I'm confident I can keep the waterproof
integrity of the structure either way.  My primary concern at this point is
the structural integrity for safety purposes.  I'm just not comfortable
having the stucco between structural members.

Ken

-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Kuritzky [mailto:kuritzky at bellsouth.net] 
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 10:41 PM
To: codetalk at myfloridacode.com; Ken Rodgers
Subject: Re: [Florida Code Talk] Attaching Deck to Stucco

There is no simple answer.

Money is the ultimate answer.  Because, to do it right will require money,
and skill.

Stucco on what? 
Frame? 
Block? 
What kind of sheathing (if frame) is under all this?

Remember, if the system is solid, and doesn't leak now, anything you do to
it will increase the possibility of a failure.

And caulking is not the answer to anything.

Leaving the stucco in place may very well be the best approach.

There are a sufficient quantity of anchors available to secure the ledger
through the stucco.  No matter how you look at it, you're putting holes in
the system; either through the stucco, or through the ledger.  And the holes
go all the way into the structure.

If you peel off the stucco, you create at least two flashing conditions, AND
have broken the existing water-proof barrier.  You'll need to flash the top
of the ledger, and the bottom.  The ledger, wood, then becomes the barrier
to whatever is left behind the stucco.

And frankly, it could very well be a code problem.  It's both structural and
water intrusion related.

Anyway, good luck with it.  Each problem is unique, and even with more
information, this group will probably come up with several good ways to
attend to this.

Eric D. Kuritzky, Architect, CBO
Orlando


On 1/19/09 11:13 PM, "Chandler Knowles" <chandlerknowles at att.net> wrote:

> What kind of stucco?  Cementicious?  EIFS?  How thick?
> 
> You are indeed correct that the proper flashing will be the key which ever
> way you go.
> 
> Chandler Knowles
> Pensacola, FL
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ken Rodgers" <Ken at artisanbilt.com>
> To: <codetalk at myfloridacode.com>
> Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 9:02 PM
> Subject: [Florida Code Talk] Attaching Deck to Stucco
> 
> 
>> All,
>> 
>>  I know this is not really a code question (unless someone has a code
>> reference that applies) but I would still appreciate your expert opinions
>> on
>> the subject.  I was asked to give a bid on building a second story deck
to
>> a
>> house with stucco covering.  Based on research and my own inclinations, I
>> feel it would be best to remove the stucco where the ledger board will be
>> so
>> it (the ledger board) can attach directly to the structural members of
the
>> house (e.g. - floor trusses).  It seems to me that leaving the stucco in
>> between the two would not be as structurally sound since it could
compress
>> over time and with movement of the wood and make for a loose joint.  It
>> could also cause stresses and cracks in the stucco.  Obviously, proper
>> flashing will be a key factor in either case.  Any opinions, experiences,
>> etc are appreciated.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Ken
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Ken Rodgers
>> 
>> ArtisanBilt Construction
>> 
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: 
>>
http://myfloridacode.com/pipermail/codetalk/attachments/20090119/7cad15eb/at
t
>> achment.html
>> _______________________________________________
>> CodeTalk mailing list
>> CodeTalk at myfloridacode.com
>> Unsubscribe or change your options at:
>> http://myfloridacode.com/mailman/listinfo/codetalk
> 
> _______________________________________________
> CodeTalk mailing list
> CodeTalk at myfloridacode.com
> Unsubscribe or change your options at:
> http://myfloridacode.com/mailman/listinfo/codetalk


Eric D. Kuritzky, Architect, CBO





------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 10:20:14 -0600
From: "Randy Shackelford" <rshackelford at strongtie.com>
Subject: Re: [Florida Code Talk] Attaching Deck to Stucco
To: "Ken Rodgers" <Ken at artisanbilt.com>, <codetalk at myfloridacode.com>
Message-ID:
	<E1B79DABD482314B8EACD1A270D414C201441E51 at 23ex.simpsonmfg.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

As far as structural code requirements, you can find them in Section
R502.2.1 of the Residential Code and 1604.8.3 of the Building Code (both
2004). 
The issue is that you have to fasten to the "primary structure", and
that it has to be able to be verified during inspection.  That may be
the determining factor right there.  If you don't remove the stucco, how
does the inspector verify that the lag bolts are hitting the trusses.
Then again, even if you do remove stucco, how do you tell once the band
is installed?
Also, with a non-structural material like the insulation for the EIFS
between the band and the truss, that puts an additional bending force on
the lag bolts that may not have been considered in the design. Probably
need to check with the designer.

Randy Shackelford
Simpson Strong-Tie
800-999-5099
rshackelford at strongtie.com


-----Original Message-----
From: codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com
[mailto:codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com] On Behalf Of Ken Rodgers
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 9:19 AM
To: codetalk at myfloridacode.com
Subject: Re: [Florida Code Talk] Attaching Deck to Stucco

The structure is a new D.R. Horton home wood frame with (I'm assuming)
EFIS stucco.  Plans call for two lag bolts at each floor truss.  I agree
that finding these trusses with the stucco left in place won't be simple
but shouldn't be impossible either.  It will however require finding
them with the "manual stud finder" (a small drill bit) which of course
just opens up more holes to moisture.  Overall, I'm confident I can keep
the waterproof integrity of the structure either way.  My primary
concern at this point is the structural integrity for safety purposes.
I'm just not comfortable having the stucco between structural members.

Ken

-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Kuritzky [mailto:kuritzky at bellsouth.net]
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 10:41 PM
To: codetalk at myfloridacode.com; Ken Rodgers
Subject: Re: [Florida Code Talk] Attaching Deck to Stucco

There is no simple answer.

Money is the ultimate answer.  Because, to do it right will require
money, and skill.

Stucco on what? 
Frame? 
Block? 
What kind of sheathing (if frame) is under all this?

Remember, if the system is solid, and doesn't leak now, anything you do
to it will increase the possibility of a failure.

And caulking is not the answer to anything.

Leaving the stucco in place may very well be the best approach.

There are a sufficient quantity of anchors available to secure the
ledger through the stucco.  No matter how you look at it, you're putting
holes in the system; either through the stucco, or through the ledger.
And the holes go all the way into the structure.

If you peel off the stucco, you create at least two flashing conditions,
AND have broken the existing water-proof barrier.  You'll need to flash
the top of the ledger, and the bottom.  The ledger, wood, then becomes
the barrier to whatever is left behind the stucco.

And frankly, it could very well be a code problem.  It's both structural
and water intrusion related.

Anyway, good luck with it.  Each problem is unique, and even with more
information, this group will probably come up with several good ways to
attend to this.

Eric D. Kuritzky, Architect, CBO
Orlando


On 1/19/09 11:13 PM, "Chandler Knowles" <chandlerknowles at att.net> wrote:

> What kind of stucco?  Cementicious?  EIFS?  How thick?
> 
> You are indeed correct that the proper flashing will be the key which 
> ever way you go.
> 
> Chandler Knowles
> Pensacola, FL
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ken Rodgers" <Ken at artisanbilt.com>
> To: <codetalk at myfloridacode.com>
> Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 9:02 PM
> Subject: [Florida Code Talk] Attaching Deck to Stucco
> 
> 
>> All,
>> 
>>  I know this is not really a code question (unless someone has a code

>> reference that applies) but I would still appreciate your expert 
>> opinions on the subject.  I was asked to give a bid on building a 
>> second story deck
to
>> a
>> house with stucco covering.  Based on research and my own 
>> inclinations, I feel it would be best to remove the stucco where the 
>> ledger board will be so it (the ledger board) can attach directly to 
>> the structural members of
the
>> house (e.g. - floor trusses).  It seems to me that leaving the stucco

>> in between the two would not be as structurally sound since it could
compress
>> over time and with movement of the wood and make for a loose joint.  
>> It could also cause stresses and cracks in the stucco.  Obviously, 
>> proper flashing will be a key factor in either case.  Any opinions, 
>> experiences, etc are appreciated.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Ken
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Ken Rodgers
>> 
>> ArtisanBilt Construction
>> 
>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was 
>> scrubbed...
>> URL: 
>>
http://myfloridacode.com/pipermail/codetalk/attachments/20090119/7cad15e
b/at
t
>> achment.html
>> _______________________________________________
>> CodeTalk mailing list
>> CodeTalk at myfloridacode.com
>> Unsubscribe or change your options at:
>> http://myfloridacode.com/mailman/listinfo/codetalk
> 
> _______________________________________________
> CodeTalk mailing list
> CodeTalk at myfloridacode.com
> Unsubscribe or change your options at:
> http://myfloridacode.com/mailman/listinfo/codetalk


Eric D. Kuritzky, Architect, CBO



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