MyFloridaCode.com

Well, I have tried to unsubscribe from these emails 4 times during the past 2 months by following the procedure at the bottom of the screen, but I still get 10-15 emails a day from this forum...

I'm going to try doing a reply to all from every email I get and see if someone there will get sick of it and actually remove me from the distribution list as I've requested.

jc.


-----Original Message-----
From: codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com [mailto:codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com] On Behalf Of WR290 at aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 11:40 AM
To: havenm at palmbayflorida.org; Bob at contractorsinstitute.com; Marquisconst at aol.com; codetalk at myfloridacode.com
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [Florida Code Talk] CodeTalk Digest, Vol 45, Issue 14

 
Dear _havenm at palmbayflorida.org_ (mailto:havenm at palmbayflorida.org) 
 
This is also an educational forum. If you have fact that an approved  
testing agency has sheet metal as a fire barrier. Can you please send this forum  
a copy. 
 
Thank you
Tom Ricci
BT Builders Inc
 
 
 
In a message dated 5/26/2009 11:29:39 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
havenm at palmbayflorida.org writes:

What you  believe (Mr. Koning) and what an approved testing agency says may 
be a  difference of opinion.

-----Original Message-----
From:  codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com 
[mailto:codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com]  On Behalf Of Bob Koning
Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 9:07 AM
To:  marquisconst at aol.com; codetalk at myfloridacode.com
Subject: Re: [Florida Code  Talk] CodeTalk Digest, Vol 45, Issue 14

I believe it is. I think it  would have more burn time than 1/2" drywall


R.J.Koning -  Director
Contractors Institute
rjkoning at contractorsinstitute.com
8301  Joliet Street
Hudson, Fl  34667
727-863-5147




-----Original Message-----
From:  codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com
[mailto:codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com]  On Behalf Of
marquisconst at aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 6:06  AM
To: codetalk at myfloridacode.com
Subject: Re: [Florida Code Talk]  CodeTalk Digest, Vol 45, Issue 14

I don't think sheetmetal is a fire  barier?


-----Original Message-----
From:  codetalk-request at myfloridacode.com
To: codetalk at myfloridacode.com
Sent:  Mon, 25 May 2009 12:41 pm
Subject: CodeTalk Digest, Vol 45, Issue  14



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Today's Topics:

1. Re: Questionable call by Building official (WR290 at aol.com)
2. Re: Questionable call by Building official  (WR290 at aol.com)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message:  1
Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 12:38:45 EDT
From: WR290 at aol.com
Subject:  Re: [Florida Code Talk] Questionable call by Building
official
To: dalemarcialee at sprintmail.com, gyantorn at scgov.net,
pathoag at cfl.rr.com, jcoughlin at englehomes.com,  FineR at gtlaw.com,
noleball at hotmail.com,    codetalk at myfloridacode.com
Message-ID:  <bea.3de02de0.374c2395 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;  charset="utf-8"


Hi Dale

Missed you last weekend. Hope all is  well.

Relating to your post. The plain language R309.2 does not mention  fire
protection, only separation, to the ceiling of a garage unless there  is
a
habitable area above.  Although we do know that 1/2 GWB is 20  minute.
That is
why the interpretation from BOAF states No.

See  below

>From BOAF Informal Interpretation

Question:

Is  it the intent of R309.1 and R309.2 to be applied to attic  accesses
in
garages with relation to a fire rating?
Answer:
No.  The requirement is  for separation as stipulated, not a fire  rated
assembly. The attic access  closure
would need to be  equivalent to 1/2 inch gyp board, or in the case  where

there is a  habitable area above the
ceiling, 5/8 inch Type X gyp board  (where  the ceiling is used to
provide
the  separation).
Commentary:
Section  309.1 addresses openings between  the garage and the residence.
Section 309.2  establish
es  the
separation requirement between the garage and the attic. 1/2   inch
gypsum
is allowed.


In a message dated 5/25/2009 11:02:50  A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
dalemarcialee at sprintmail.com  writes:

I'm  unclear as to the installation of the ladder. Is it a  fixed ladder
through the  scuttle hole creating a penetration of the  ceiling
assembly?
R309.2 requires  ceiling protection of 1/2 " gdw  on the ceiling and if
its a
floor/ceiling  assembly,( with  habitable space above) it must be 5/8
type "X'.
If the ladder  and  scuttle create a penetration through the ceiling
envelope,
it must  be  protected in some manner.
Most pull-down attic ladders are not  fire-rated  but a layer of
sheet-metal
or drywall applied to the  bottom side is usually  accepted.

Dale Lee,CBO
Bay Harbor  Islands

-----Original  Message-----
>From:  WR290 at aol.com
>Sent: May 23, 2009 3:26  PM
>To:  gyantorn at scgov.net, pathoag at cfl.rr.com,   jcoughlin at englehomes.com,
FineR at gtlaw.com, noleball at hotmail.com,   codetalk at myfloridacode.com
>Subject: Re: [Florida Code Talk]   Questionable call by Building
official
>
>
>I think he  said  he discussed it with the BO because he might want  to
be
one
> in the   future,
>
>Tom
>
>
>a message dated   5/23/2009 3:23:20 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>gyantorn at scgov.net   writes:
>
>This  issue is getting out of hand. Discuss  with  the BO and inspector.

You
>may be   suprised.
>
>-----  Original Message  -----
>From:    codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com
><codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com>
>To:   WR290 at aol.com  <WR290 at aol.com>;  jcoughlin at englehomes.com
><jcoughlin at englehomes.com>;  FineR at gtlaw.com   <FineR at gtlaw.com>;
noleball at hotmail.com
><noleball at hotmail.com>;  codetalk at myfloridacode.com
<codetalk at myfloridacode.com>
>Sent:  Sat May 23 15:15:06   2009
>Subject: Re: [Florida Code Talk]  Questionable call by  Building
official
>
>Your backing  down does nothing but to  propagate the problem   state
wide.
>
>-----Original   Message-----
>From:    codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com
>[mailto:codetalk-bounc
es at myfloridacode.com]    On Behalf Of WR290 at aol.com
>Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 2:32   PM
>To:  jcoughlin at englehomes.com; FineR at gtlaw.com;    noleball at hotmail.com;
>codetalk at myfloridacode.com
>Subject:  Re:  [Florida  Code Talk] Questionable call by  Building
official
>
>
>I absolutely   understand.
>
>This is purely a business decision.  If he  want  to  take this official

on.
>He will not get a CO,  His bank will  keep  charging for extensions of
his
>loan.  Assuming he has  a loan. And  probably 2 years down the road  he
might
>get
>this issue done. What I see  is FR paint  and a GFCI > The  total cost
is
>less
>
>than  100.00.
>
>I have been down this road and it is not pretty. Not  to  mention that
this
>person is a contractor. I assume he  will  want to continue to   work
with
this
>
>building  department.
>
>
>Tom
>
>
>In a   message dated  5/23/2009 2:21:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight  Time,
>jcoughlin at englehomes.com writes:
>
>The  problem  with  rolling  over when you are right and the  inspector
won't
>listen  is  sort of  like a dog  humping your leg. If you let the  dog
hump
>you,
>
>he  always  will and you will  be his  biatch.
>
>Go to the BO first, then  get  BIA  involved.  This will work 95% of  the

time.
>
>Rolling over is  NOT  an    Option.
>
>________________________________
>
>From:    WR290 at aol.com
>To: Jay Coughlin; FineR at gtlaw.com ;    noleball at hotmail.com ;
>codetalk at myfloridacode.com
>Sent:   Sat May  23 14:16:18 2009
>Subject: Re:  [Florida Code  Talk]  Questionable call  by  Building
official

>
>
>Charles:
>
>I was  not going to  chime  in on this.This is a  common happening.  You
can
>do
>one of  two  things. Take a recorder  with you and  tell him you are
>recording
>his   comments, send his comments along with  a  complaint to DBPR.  Or
you
>can
>just make the  repairs and go one with life.  I  would absolutly
recommend

>the second  option.
>
>Tom Ricci CBO
>BT   Builders   Inc
>
>In a message dated 5/21/2009 8:44:12 A.M.  Eastern  Daylight   Time,
>jcoughlin at englehom
es.com   writes:
>
>This is typical of   some rouge  inspectors.  Call the CBO and it goes
away
>if not  in  book,  can be  resolved in one day  normally.
>
>-----Original    Message-----
>From:     codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com
>[mailto:codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com]    On Behalf Of
FineR at gtlaw.com
>Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009   7:55   PM
>To: noleball at hotmail.com;    codetalk at myfloridacode.com
>Subject:  Re: [Florida Code  Talk]   Questionable call by  Building
official
>
>(This is not  intended to be legal  advice)
>
>If it were  me, and my  county had a board of  rules and appeals, I
would
>file an   appeal.  In my  experience, the filing of  an appeal is enough

to
>lead to a  discussion that frequently  resolves the matter  without   the
>hearing being  necessary.  And if it  doesn't get  resolved,  you have a
set
>date by which the matter  will  be resolved.    If  your county   does
not
>have  such a board, you can use the  binding   interpretation process in

Fla
>Stat 553.775  which is very  fast.
>
>Good   luck
>
>Robert
>
>Robert S. Fine,   Esq.,    AIA
>
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>--
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>
>From:    codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com
><codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com>
>To:   codetalk at myfloridacode.com  <codetalk at myfloridacode.com>
>Sent: Wed  May  20  19:35:05 2009
>Subject: [Florida Code Talk]   Questionable  call by  Building official
>
>
>
>I  am  trying to obtain a C.O. for a   residence we have completed  and
the
>building official has  taken some  liberties with  his  judgement.  I
>usually try  to do what is  asked  of me by  the building officials as I
>will   likely be one one day but   this one is taking it a bit  far.
>
>
>
>We have  installed an    attic ladder (aluminum ladder) in the garage
and
>the   inspector  refuses to issue a C.O. until the attic  ladder  and
hatch
>is painted with  fire resistant paint.    Further, he insists that  we
>install GFCI  receptacles in  the  dining room (not kitchen)  which is
not
>required  by  the  N.E.C. or the Florida Building  Code.  I took  the
book
to
>him  and asked for him to show  it to me  and he said that  it is not in

the
>Code but it is in   "his code" and it is  what he wants to  see.   He
insists
>that the house will not  pass until the hatch  is  painted with fire
>retardant paint and the  recepatcles in  the dining room  (not  kitchen)

are
>changed.
>
>
>
>To make  matters worse,  he  is the electrical inpector  for  the
>jurisdiction and is  not licensed  to do any other   inspections.  Does
>anyone  have any suggestions  on  this  one?  Soem of you are  building
>officials on here  and  may  be able to help me   out.
>
>
>
>Charles    Walker
>
>CW  Building Contractor,  inc
>
>CBC  1250992    CCC 1325996 CFC  1427782
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Windows    Live(tm): Keep your life in    sync.
>http://windowslive.
com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_BR_life_in_synch_052009
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>________________________________
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>Recession-proof   vacation ideas. Find free things to do in the  U.S.

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------------------------------

Message:  2
Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 12:40:27 EDT
From: WR290 at aol.com
Subject:  Re: [Florida Code Talk] Questionable call by Building
official
To: WR290 at aol.com, dalemarcialee at sprintmail.com,  gyantorn at scgov.net,
pathoag at cfl.rr.com,  jcoughlin at englehomes.com, FineR at gtlaw.com,
noleball at hotmail.com, codetalk at myfloridacode.com
Message-ID:  <cdc.4bdb0b26.374c23fb at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;  charset="utf-8"

In a message dated 5/25/2009 12:38:45 P.M. Eastern  Daylight Time, WR290

writes:

Hi Dale

Missed you last  weekend. Hope all is well.

Relating to your post. The plain language  R309.2 does not mention fire
protection, only separation, to the ceiling of  a garage unless there is
a
habitable area above.  Although we do  know that 1/2 GWB is 20  minute.
That is
why the interpretation  from BOAF states No.

See below

>From BOAF Informal  Interpretatio
n

Question:

Is it the intent of R309.1 and  R309.2 to be applied to attic accesses
in
garages with relation to a  fire rating?
Answer:
No. The requirement  is for separation as  stipulated, not a fire rated
assembly. The attic access  closure would  need to be equivalent to 1/2
inch gyp
board, or in the case  where  there is a habitable area above the
ceiling,
5/8 inch Type X gyp  board  (where the ceiling is used to provide  the
separation).





Commentary:
Section 309.1  addresses openings between the garage  and the residence.
Section  309.2 establishes the separation requirement  between the  garage
and
the attic. 1/2 inch gypsum is  allowed.


Tom  Ricci
BT Builders Inc



In a message dated 5/25/2009 11:02:50  A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
dalemarcialee at sprintmail.com  writes:

I'm  unclear as to the installation of the ladder. Is it a  fixed ladder
through  the scuttle hole creating a penetration of the  ceiling
assembly?
R309.2  requires ceiling protection of 1/2 " gdw  on the ceiling and if
its a
floor/ceiling assembly,( with habitable  space above) it must be 5/8 type
"X'.
If the ladder and scuttle create a  penetration through the ceiling
envelope, it must be protected in some  manner.
Most pull-down attic  ladders are not fire-rated but a layer  of
sheet-metal
or drywall applied to  the bottom side is usually  accepted.

Dale Lee,CBO
Bay Harbor  Islands

-----Original  Message-----
>From:  WR290 at aol.com
>Sent: May 23, 2009 3:26  PM
>To:  gyantorn at scgov.net, pathoag at cfl.rr.com,  jcoughlin at englehomes.com,

FineR at gtlaw.com, noleball at hotmail.com,   codetalk at myfloridacode.com
>Subject: Re: [Florida Code Talk]   Questionable call by Building
official
>
>
>I think  he  said he discussed it with the BO because he might want  to
be
one
> in  the  future,
>
>Tom
>
>
>a message dated   5/23/2009 3:23:20 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>gyantorn at scgov.net  writes:
>
>This  issue is  getting out of hand. Discuss  with the BO and inspector.

You
>may  be   surprised.
>
>----- Original Message   -----
>From:   co
detalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com
><codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com>
>To:   WR290 at aol.com  <WR290 at aol.com>;  jcoughlin at englehomes.com
><jcoughlin at englehomes.com>;  FineR at gtlaw.com   <FineR at gtlaw.com>;
noleball at hotmail.com
><noleball at hotmail.com>;  codetalk at myfloridacode.com
<codetalk at myfloridacode.com>
>Sent:  Sat May 23 15:15:06   2009
>Subject: Re: [Florida Code Talk]  Questionable call by  Building
official
>
>Your backing  down does nothing but to  propagate the problem   state
wide.
>
>-----Original   Message-----
>From:    codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com
>[mailto:codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com]    On Behalf Of
WR290 at aol.com
>Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 2:32   PM
>To:  jcoughlin at englehomes.com; FineR at gtlaw.com;    noleball at hotmail.com;
>codetalk at myfloridacode.com
>Subject:  Re:  [Florida  Code Talk] Questionable call by  Building
official
>
>
>I absolutely   understand.
>
>This is purely a business decision.  If he  want   to take this official

on.
>He will not get a CO,  His bank will  keep  charging for extensions of
his
>loan.  Assuming he  has a loan. And  probably 2 years down the road  he
might
>get
>this issue done. What I see  is FR paint  and a GFCI > The  total cost
is
>less
>
>than  100.00.
>
>I have been down this road and it is not pretty. Not  to  mention that
this
>person is a contractor. I assume he   will want to continue to   work
with
this
>
>building   department.
>
>
>Tom
>
>
>In a    message dated 5/23/2009 2:21:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight  Time,
>jcoughlin at englehomes.com writes:
>
>The   problem  with rolling  over when you are right and the  inspector
won't
>listen is  sort of  like a dog humping  your leg. If you  let the dog
hump
>you,
>
>he   always  will and  you will be his biatch.
>
>Go to the  BO first, then  get  BIA  involved. This will work 95% of  the

time.
>
>Rolling  over is  NOT an    Option.
>
>________________________________
>
>From:    WR290 at aol.com
>To: Jay Coughlin; FineR at gtlaw.com ;    noleball at hotmail.com ;
>codetalk at myfloridacode.com
>Sent:
Sat  May  23 14:16:18 2009
>Subject: Re:   [Florida Code Talk]  Questionable call  by  Building
official

>
>
>Charles:
>
>I was  not going to   chime in on this.This is a  common happening.  You
can
>do
>one of two  things. Take a recorder with you  and  tell him  you are
>recording
>his  comments,  send his comments  along with a  complaint to DBPR.  Or
you
>can
>just  make the repairs and go one with life.  I  would absolutly
recommend
>the second  option.
>
>Tom Ricci  CBO
>BT  Builders   Inc
>
>In a message dated  5/21/2009 8:44:12 A.M. Eastern  Daylight   Time,
>jcoughlin at englehomes.com  writes:
>
>This is typical  of   some rouge  inspectors. Call the CBO and it goes
away
>if not  in  book,  can be resolved in one day   normally.
>
>-----Original    Message-----
>From:     codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com
>[mailto:codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com]    On Behalf Of
FineR at gtlaw.com
>Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009   7:55   PM
>To: noleball at hotmail.com;    codetalk at myfloridacode.com
>Subject:  Re: [Florida Code   Talk]  Questionable call by Building
official
>
>(This is  not intended to be legal advice)
>
>If it were  me, and my  county had a board of rules and  appeals, I
would
>file an   appeal.  In my experience,  the filing of  an appeal is  enough
to
>lead to a discussion  that frequently  resolves  the matter without  the
>hearing  being  necessary.   And if it doesn't get resolved,  you have
a
set
>date by  which the matter will be resolved.     If  your  county  does
not
>have such a board, you can use  the  binding   interpretation process in
Fla
>Stat 553.775   which is very  fast.
>
>Good   luck
>
>Robert
>
>Robert S. Fine,   Esq.,    AIA
>
>
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>
>From:    codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com
><codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com>
>To:   codetalk at myfloridacode.com  <codetalk at myfloridacode.com>
>Sent:  Wed May  20  19:35:05 2009
>Subject: [Florida Code Talk]   Questionable  call by  Building  official
>
>
>
>I am  trying to obtain a C.O. for  a   residence we have completed  and
the
>building official  has  taken some  liberties  with his judgement.   I
>usually try  to do what is  asked  of me by the building  officials as I
>will   likely be one one day but  this one is  taking it a bit  far.
>
>
>
>We have installed  an    attic ladder (aluminum ladder) in the garage
and
>the   inspector  refuses to issue a C.O. until the attic  ladder  and
hatch
>is painted with  fire resistant paint.    Further, he insists that  we
>install GFCI  receptacles  in  the dining room (not kitchen)  which is
not
>required  by   the N.E.C. or the Florida Building  Code.  I took  the
book
to
>him  and asked for him to show  it to me  and he said  that it is not in

the
>Code but it is in   "his code" and it  is what he wants to  see.   He
insists
>that the house will  not pass until the hatch  is  painted with
fire
>retardant paint  and the recepatcles  in the dining room  (not  kitchen)

are
>changed.
>
>
>
>To make  matters worse,  he  is the electrical inpector  for  the
>jurisdiction and is  not licensed  to do any other   inspections.   Does
>anyone have any suggestions  on  this  one?  Some  of you are building
>officials on here  and  may  be able to  help me  out.
>
>
>
>Charles    Walker
>
>CW  Building Contractor,  inc
>
>CBC  1250992    CCC 1325996 CFC  1427782
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Windows    Live(tm): Keep your life in    sync.
>http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_BR_life_in_synch_052009
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____________________________________
We  found the real 'Hotel California' and



**************We found  the real ?Hotel California? and the ?Seinfeld?
diner. What will you find?  Explore  WhereItsAt.com.
(http://www.whereitsat.com/?ncid=emlwenew00000004)
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