MyFloridaCode.com

Sun Jul 18 13:01:16 EDT 2010

It appears the state has screwed division 1 contractors by not allowing us to continue to do work that we previously did and even some divison 2 contractors in regards to home inspections.

Who is going to know more about a commercial building or a house, a guy like myself that can and does build and remodel them, or a home inspector that looks at a structure after the fact?

Who is going to know more about an A/C system than a Certified A/C contractor like myself, or a home inspector?

Who is going to know more about plumbing systems a guy like myself who passed the Plumbing contractors exam or a home inspector?

I can tell you of the 3 certified exams that I have taken and passed on the 1st try, Plumbing was by far the hardest and there is no way a Home inspector who has only had a couple of classes and 120 inspections is going to know more than I do, but they can do inspections where I can't.

I have done several inspections for insurance companies, as far as I know they require division 1 contractors to sign off on them, not home inspectors.

We can pull permits and do repairs but a home inspector can only do inspections, when there is a difference of opinion in the report and I have seen may home inspection reports where the inspector had no clue what he was talking about, who will be deemed the one who has more knowledge, the guy with the least experience (the home inspector) or the guy who can and does actually build for a living (The Certified Contractor)?

Mold is a small portion of my business, but I have to compete against carpet companies for this type of work, they get to the scened due to their ability to do water extraction, then the next thing you know they are doing work that a Division 1 contractor is supposed to do.

I don't like unlicensed contractors and I think it is a good idea for inspectors and mold remediators to be licensed, but the state needs to keep their hand out of my pocket and quit screwing us licensed contractors.

Another thing I noticed is the ACAC tests are 100-120 questions are $400, yet my Certified Building Contractors Exam, Certified Air conditioning Exam and Certified Plumbing Contractors Exam was not as expensive and they were more thorough, who is getting greased from the ACAC?

How many different ACAC certifications do we need?

Bret Walley
--- On Fri, 7/16/10, codetalk-request at myfloridacode.com <codetalk-request at myfloridacode.com> wrote:

From: codetalk-request at myfloridacode.com <codetalk-request at myfloridacode.com>
Subject: CodeTalk Digest, Vol 59, Issue 20
To: codetalk at myfloridacode.com
Date: Friday, July 16, 2010, 4:32 PM

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Applicable Codes Indicated by    Design    Professional
      (Steve Roland)
   2. Re: Applicable Codes Indicated    by    DesignProfessional
      (Steve Roland)
   3. Mold Information (Bob Koning)
   4. Re: Applicable Codes Indicated by    Design    Professional (Pat Hoag)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 14:42:19 -0400
From: Steve Roland <steven_t05 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Florida Code Talk] Applicable Codes Indicated by    Design
    Professional
To: <rharrell1 at cfl.rr.com>, <boafdiscussion at boaf.net>,
    "codetalk at myfloridacode.com" <codetalk at myfloridacode.com>
Message-ID: <SNT137-w38742CAFE03DA9F45F4E9CFEBC0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

request for the thread about requirements for building seawall.

thanks,

Steve

From: rharrell1 at cfl.rr.com
To: boafdiscussion at boaf.net; codetalk at myfloridacode.com
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 10:18:39 -0400
Subject: [Florida Code Talk] Applicable Codes Indicated by Design Professional

Hello All,

A design professional called  me this morning.  He mentioned that he prepared a set of plans wherein he indicated that a new SFR would comply with the FBCB, FBCM, FBCP, and NEC...rather than FBCR.  A plan review comment was issued that told the DP to change the plans to indicate FBCR as the applicable code.  Question: Does the DP have the right to design a SFR under the FBCB, and the other codes mentioned herein, provided that plans show compliance with such codes?  DP said that he is butting heads with plans examiner on this issue...so he would like a little feedback from the DG.  Any and all replies on this topic will be greatly appreciated.  Thanks.

Rob Harrell

(Interestingly, the DP also said that plans examiner is requesting a statement on the construction drawings that proposed house is Type VB construction. No specific code section from FBCR was cited.)                           
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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 14:48:32 -0400
From: Steve Roland <steven_t05 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Florida Code Talk] Applicable Codes Indicated    by
    DesignProfessional
To: <bholland at cityofnorthport.com>, <boafdiscussion at boaf.net>,
    "codetalk at myfloridacode.com" <codetalk at myfloridacode.com>
Message-ID: <SNT137-w5222AE9B55191A411A9FFCFEBC0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

The "and/or" is the issue here.  You can be a 1 & 2 family plans examiner and not be able to do inspections on the unit and visa versa.  You must have both certifications to do both.

Steve

Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 11:37:50 -0400
From: bholland at cityofnorthport.com
To: boafdiscussion at boaf.net; codetalk at myfloridacode.com
Subject: Re: [Florida Code Talk] Applicable Codes Indicated by DesignProfessional

Would a 1&2 Family Dwelling Plans Examiner and/or 1&2 Family Dwelling Inspector be legally permitted to perform plan review / inspection of a 1&2 Family Dwelling designed and built to the FBC, FMC, FPC, and FFGC?

Bryan P. Holland
City of North Port
4970 City Hall Blvd.
North Port, Florida 34286
(941) 429-7053
bholland at cityofnorthport.com

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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 15:50:00 -0400
From: "Bob Koning" <Bob at ContractorsInstitute.com>
Subject: [Florida Code Talk] Mold Information
To: <CodeTalk at myfloridacode.com>
Cc: Rachel Boyko <rachel at ContractorsInstitute.com>
Message-ID:
    <DF3E330A92E8DB46B82D104B79FC3BBF3BC4C1 at mailbox.hudson.koning.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Group, Here is an e-mail I sent today to the Department of Business and
Professional Regulation and to select representatives. You will be
surprised as I to discover the "sweetheart" deal the state conveyed at
our expense. (see bottom for additional contact information)

++++

To all involved Florida agents and employees:

We have just received a copy of the Agreement between the Department of
Professional Regulation and the American Council of Accredited
Certification (ACAC). We would like to know where and how this contract
was competitively bid pursuant to:

455.217  Examinations.--This section shall be read in conjunction with
the appropriate practice act associated with each regulated profession
under this chapter. 

(d)  A board, or the department when there is no board, may approve by
rule the use of any national examination which the department has
certified as meeting requirements of national examinations and generally
accepted testing standards pursuant to department rules. Providers of
examinations, which may be either profit or nonprofit entities, seeking
certification by the department shall pay the actual costs incurred by
the department in making a determination regarding the certification.
The department shall use any national examination which is available,
certified by the department, and approved by the board. The name and
number of a candidate may be provided to a national contractor for the
limited purpose of preparing the grade tape and information to be
returned to the board or department or, to the extent otherwise
specified by rule, the candidate may apply directly to the vendor of the
national examination. The department may delegate to the board the duty
to provide and administer the examination. Any national examination
approved by a board, or the department when there is no board, prior to
October 1, 1997, is deemed certified under this paragraph. Any licensing
or certification examination that is not developed or administered by
the department in-house or provided as a national examination shall be
competitively bid.

Additionally, preliminary inquiries reveal that information provided by
the contract recipient, ACAC, may be un-true or mis-directed. Their
website(s) indicate they follow an ASTM standard for certification that
may not exist. Preliminary inquiries to the ASTM indicate that they have
never heard of this council and do not endorse it. Furthermore, that the
dates of stated existence conflict  with other dates of incorporation
and the scientific entity proffered as "overseeing" the council's
accreditation (council of engineering & scientific specialty boards) is
associated with a disbarred attorney and does not appear to be a
legitimate scientific entity. Much more is being uncovered as the
investigation by others continue.

I warned the Department that they were being "duped" by this council -
its genesis was by associations for associations - that it did not have
the credibility and experience it contended. My opinion hasn't changed.
The fact is there are no Federal Standards or Regulations for Mold like
there are for Lead, Asbestos, etc... Therefore who is to say whether
this "council's" certifications are correct? Where is the baseline of
Federal training standards we measure them with? There are none, and
they know it. So, they use the "council of engineering & scientific
specialty boards" as a standard?

The State Contract requires $100.00 application fee per student to the
ACAC as their exclusive vendor. The Association of Construction Industry
Certified Contractors offered to perform the testing free of charge and
provided all information to the department with the offer to adjust any
requirement to meet any concern the state had. No response. Other
testing and certification agencies have been training and certifying
assessors and remediators and are the industry standard for quality and
professionalism, (such as South Eastern Mold Institute, Inc) - they are
all out.

Please provide us with the bidding notice and bid tabulation for the
ACAC contract or notify us why such was not required.

Thank you, 

R.J.Koning - Director

Contractors Institute

rjkoning at contractorsinstitute.com
<mailto:rjkoning at contractorsinstitute.com> 

8301 Joliet Street

Hudson, Fl 34667

727-863-5147

+++++++++

I would suggest anyone who is interested contact Bill Fisher @
850-785-1843 or Rick Hollister @ 850-528-4135 for further information
regarding the problems with this contract with ACAC.

R.J.Koning - Director

Contractors Institute

rjkoning at contractorsinstitute.com
<mailto:rjkoning at contractorsinstitute.com> 

8301 Joliet Street

Hudson, Fl 34667

727-863-5147

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Message: 4
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 16:32:55 -0400
From: "Pat Hoag" <pathoag at cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Florida Code Talk] Applicable Codes Indicated by    Design
    Professional
To: "'Hernacki Engineering'" <hecs at bellsouth.net>,    "'Rob Harrell'"
    <rharrell1 at cfl.rr.com>,    "'BOAF Discussion Group'"
    <boafdiscussion at boaf.net>,    "'CodeTalk'" <codetalk at myfloridacode.com>
Message-ID: <005801cb2526$1279d3b0$376d7b10$@rr.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

The engineer has spoken, for those of you CBO's that like to "stick it to
the stupid designers" try sticking to their design when exceeding the FBC
and quit whining it under the disguise of "Building Official Interpretation"
when you don't like something or have ego issues.

From: codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com
[mailto:codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com] On Behalf Of Hernacki
Engineering
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 11:27 AM
To: 'Rob Harrell'; 'BOAF Discussion Group'; 'CodeTalk'
Subject: Re: [Florida Code Talk] Applicable Codes Indicated by Design
Professional

We do house (SFDR) all the time to FBC and not FRC.  We are allowed, as
design professionals, to use or create higher standards to the minimum code.
We require all smoke detectors and security alarms to be on one branch AFI
circuit.  This is above and beyond the code requirement but gives me piece
of mind instead of powering the alarms off a bedroom branch circuit powering
lights and such.

I prefer doing things to the FBC due to the strength design requirements are
a little stronger then the deemed to comply requirements and tables of the
FRC.

But once you use the FBC you can not step down or back up the FRC.
Sometimes the FRC will allow a lower element to be used and the FBC will not
allow that element to be used.  So a conflict could develop in the cost
model between the 2 since the FBC requires constant design input versus the
FRC allows for deemed to comply compliance.

TRH

Hernacki Engineering & Construction Services Inc.

  _____  

From: codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com
[mailto:codetalk-bounces at myfloridacode.com] On Behalf Of Rob Harrell
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 10:19 AM
To: BOAF Discussion Group; CodeTalk
Subject: [Florida Code Talk] Applicable Codes Indicated by
DesignProfessional

Hello All,

A design professional called  me this morning.  He mentioned that he
prepared a set of plans wherein he indicated that a new SFR would comply
with the FBCB, FBCM, FBCP, and NEC...rather than FBCR.  A plan review
comment was issued that told the DP to change the plans to indicate FBCR as
the applicable code.  Question: Does the DP have the right to design a SFR
under the FBCB, and the other codes mentioned herein, provided that plans
show compliance with such codes?  DP said that he is butting heads with
plans examiner on this issue...so he would like a little feedback from the
DG.  Any and all replies on this topic will be greatly appreciated.  Thanks.

Rob Harrell

(Interestingly, the DP also said that plans examiner is requesting a
statement on the construction drawings that proposed house is Type VB
construction. No specific code section from FBCR was cited.)

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